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Interview with George Knapp

The now defunct website UAPinfo wasn’t able to come to full fruition like many had hoped. Our biggest accomplishment, however, was this eye opening interview with the legend, George Knapp. Mr. Knapp graciously answered our questions in an honest, in depth and forthcoming manner. All members of UAPinfo, myself included, will forever be grateful that Mr. Knapp took the time out to share his views with us.  – Danny Silva

Andreas Stahl: Without going into specific individual cases or details there seems to be a few individuals claiming they are whistleblowers from inside DOD ‘black projects’. Given the extreme claims in some of these cases, what do you believe should be put in place with regards to verification of sources, how therefore can Ufology be brought into the upcoming mainstream to that regard?

George Knapp: The only Latin phrase I know that comes close is…Caveat Emptor. Buyer beware. In a subject as crazy as this it is important to keep an open mind while maintaining a healthy degree of skepticism. Basically, it boils down to this–show me what you’ve got and is there supporting evidence? I can’t even guess how many times in the last 30 years that people have contacted me, claiming to be DOD insiders or whistle blowers who want to share info about UFOs, and for the most part, they turned out to be bullshitters, or people who wanted attention, some who seemed mentally unstable, and a few who–I suspect–wanted to find out what I knew, as opposed to telling me what they knew.

Legitimate DOD insiders/whistle blowers who have plausible or verifiable info about UFOs are pretty rare. There are a lot of people in the military establishment who know bits and pieces about UFOs because, as we know, the Pentagon has continued to collect information, incident reports, visual and other types of evidence, but there are very few who know the big picture stuff. The subject really is compartmentalized. Most DOD folks think it’s nonsense because that is what has been drilled into them for the last 60 years, and as we have learned in the last 9 months, even dramatic encounters involving large numbers of pilots and other personnel can and are kept secret, or at least do not end up being reported on network newscasts or on the front page of the New York Times. The ridicule factor is a huge part of that. The same is true at higher levels of DOD. No one wants to be the UFO general or UFO admiral of UFO guy on the Joint Chiefs. In the end, that means the number of insiders who really, truly know about the subject is pretty small.

I can say, with a degree of confidence, that much of what is known on a macro scale about UFOs is not within the confines of DOD. It is in private industry. My guess is that a small and informal network of like-minded people on the inside will occasionally exchange information on this subject with what might be a larger network on the outside, but, again, the number of people who know the big picture stuff is likely pretty low. We have all seen what has happened in recent times regarding objective truth, actual facts, a shared version of reality. They’ve been demolished. Facts are now flexible. A large segment of the population thinks that Alex Jones is a crusading truth-teller while the New York Times peddles fake news. That world of fact-free facts is a target-rich environment for anyone peddling wacky UFO tales and Deep State conspiracies. The more outrageous the claims, the more attention they seem to get from devotees of UFOlogy. It’s not a new development for ufology, because there have always been hucksters, but this current crop of pitchmen has taken things to a whole new level. Mars? Really? With Barack Obama? Or, say, are you one of the guys who personally shot and killed and gutted a few dozen extraterrestrials? Are you the guru who can attract alien spaceships anytime you want, just by using a flashlight? You asked how can ufology enter the mainstream? The UFO topic has already entered the mainstream. It happened this year. Ufology, however, is another matter.

There are no standards, no prerequisites, no governing authority, not even an agreement on what is included under that umbrella term. If someone says they study anthropology or microbiology, we have a pretty solid idea what they mean. But ufology is a different animal. It includes everyone from a nuts-and-bolts physicist like Stan Friedman to the media personality who thinks Queen Elizabeth is a Reptilian. I support and sympathize with MUFON, which has strived to make Ufology respectable or credible, but it is an uphill battle, and one that might be unwinnable. In a way, this is similar to what has happened to journalism. Social media and the rise of citizen journalism have been great in many respects, but owning a keyboard and computer does not make someone a journalist. The claims made by ufologists of UFO “journalists”, either online or in conference speeches or on TV shows, don’t undergo a rigorous editing process. There is no hard-nosed managing editor asking for the proof or verification that a DOD insider source actually exists, or that the writer really did hang out on Mars with young Mr. Obama. People type stuff up and let it fly from their computer or Twitter feed, with no editorial oversight or fact checking, and then they wait to see how many people will buy into it.

I realize that Tom Delonge is seen as a controversial figure in this arena. He has taken an amazing amount of shit from ufology in general, from assorted UFO poobahs, and from what seem to be millions of UFO authorities and experts who lurk on Twitter and Facebook, but…I can tell you from direct personal experience that he really DID develop a small and special network of insider sources. I know because Tom and I were in frequent contact as it was happening. He would call and share info about breakthroughs he had made, and it was understood I was not going to report the details. In many of those conversations, I offered some suggestions about “the pitch” he could make as he worked his way up the UFO food chain, and he would call me back to tell me how things went. It was an incredibly exciting time. Tom has always been interested in the subject but I think he did his first major interview on the topic with me on Coast to Coast, then, on his own initiative, he shifted into UFO overdrive. He took things to a much higher level. When he started to share little tidbits about having inside sources, the reaction from “serious ufologists” was pretty much universal–ah, bullshit, they said, no Pentagon insiders are going to spill UFO secrets to a rock star. But it was true. I watched it happen in real time, step by step, name by name. When Wikileaks published John Podesta’s emails, the world found out that Tom wasn’t exaggerating. Among the leaked emails were a few from Delonge in which he mentioned the names of the people he’d been speaking to about UFOs—major league, heavy hitter names. He was telling the truth. (One of those leaked emails was mine, by the way, and it was a very odd feeling at the time.)

The leak was initially viewed as a disaster because it spooked the people he had cultivated, but it confirmed he had been telling the truth, that Tom Delonge really did have insider DOD sources who were talking to him, as well as sources outside of DOD. Like it or not, he is the primary driving force for much of what has unfolded in the last 9 months. (There are others who do not work for or with TTSA who have helped as well.) With the high level contacts he developed, he was able to convince some pretty serious people to join him at TTSA. His organization gave Lue Elizondo a place to land when Lue left the Pentagon and AATIP. The now-famous videos were released. The Pentagon confirmed the program was real. The NY Times and countless other news organizations did serious, straightforward news stories about UFO research and the Pentagon’s interest. These are major developments. Tom did that, like it or not.

I am not in that loop anymore. I don’t know who might be helping him now, other than the team that has been identified publicly. I do not work for TTSA. As with everything else in “ufology”, it is a good idea to take new information with a grain of salt, so I would not necessarily endorse all of the stuff that Tom has been told. I think even he would admit that some of what he has been told might be a test of sorts, or a riddle. But he really did develop legitimate DOD insider sources, and together, they have turned the UFO subject on its head. Sometimes DOD sources turn out to be real. What the ultimate agenda might be is a whole different subject. One last point about DOD insiders–there is an entirely different cadre of people who have–or had–direct info about UFOs, but who are hostile to anything approaching disclosure. Their motives range from petty personal issues to religious beliefs to the fact that a few of them get a kick out of stirring the pot and watching what happens. UFO folks are always on the lookout for the dreaded disinformation plot. Well, it does happen. We can all cite examples. I am reasonably sure there are a couple of long-time influencers who are currently whispering in the ears of people in this field, people whose lives and stature have been upended by TTSA/AATIP/AAWSAP/BAASS/NIDS revelations. If you wonder why there is so much conflicting information and seemingly contradictory theories and scenarios, all coming from the same place, well….

Dregs: Can you speak on the Height 611 UFO crash? How did a fragment of the debris end up in the national atomic testing museum? The analysis of this debris sounds like Delonge’s metamaterials. Is there a connection? What became of the debris?

George Knapp: There is no connection between the meta-materials mentioned by TTSA and the material that was on display in the museum. In the early 90’s, I worked for Altamira Communications in Las Vegas, and the reason I took the job is that Altamira has its own TV studio, and the owner was willing to finance the ultimate UFO documentary project. I sketched out an initial series of 12 documentary films. We travelled all over the country to interview authorities and witnesses. A US Congressman introduced me to a Russian physicist who was in the US to lecture about nuclear arms issues. He had been the national security advisor to Russian president Yeltsin, to the Russian Parliament, and to their Academy of Sciences. We engaged him to seek out sources of UFO information, people who had never spoken publicly about the topic. He did. I made two trips to Russia…one in 93 and one in 96. We succeeded in obtaining hundreds of pages of Ministry of Defense documents regarding UFOs. Turns out the Russian military conducted the biggest UFO study ever. It lasted ten years, collected thousands of detailed cases, some of them very dramatic encounters. During that first trip, we met a Russian microbiologist who studied UFO landing site trace cases. He had found hundreds of very odd, very tiny glass-like spheres in the soil at places where witnesses had reported UFO landings. He referred to them as cosmic sperm. He generously agreed to share with me about half of the world’s known supply of cosmic sperm. I carried it out of Russia through multiple airport checkpoints along with very sensitive documents, a few of which were STILL classified.

When I returned to Moscow in 96, everything had changed. The sources who had been cooperative during the age of glasnost were scared to even be seen with me. I was traveling with a British TV crew who were re-tracing our steps from the 93 trip for a Discovery show, with one exception–this visit would include a side trip to Dalnegorsk, 11 time zones from Moscow, on the edge of the world. It was a rough journey. Dalnegorsk had been the site of an unusual crash. An object in the sky was seen by hundreds of witnesses before it crashed on Hill 611. The first scientist to climb the hill and collect samples was the main person we interviewed during the visit. He handed over several packets of material gathered from the crash site. He told me the debris from the object itself had very strange qualities, were the product of unknown engineering processes, and had been sent to various government and military labs for further analysis. (The scientists never had his samples returned.) The material I brought back was not the metal from the craft. it was rocks and soil and plants that had been burned when the object exploded.

When the Atomic Testing Museum wanted to open an Area 51-themed exhibit, I offered to loan them whatever I had. They were intrigued by the Russian samples and included the material in their exhibit, and it was a big hit for them. It generated a lot of media attention over a few years. (I supplied them with samples from Dalnegorsk as well as some of the tiny spheres.) In the meantime, the spheres I still possessed were subjected to rigorous testing in multiple labs. I am not able to share those specific results with you except to say the composition was really unusual and the reason they had been made at all remained a mystery. So far as I know, the spheres had no magical properties. Fast forward—the few spheres I still had at my home disappeared. I don’t know how or when it happened, but after holding onto the samples for close to 20 years, the spheres were gone. As a footnote, when the Atomic Museum decided to downsize its Area 51 exhibit, they returned the various objects and materials I had loaned them—except for the spheres.

They’re missing.

Danny Silva: What got you interested in the subject, originally?

George Knapp: There are some events in my family history that I do not remember. I don’t know if they were a subconscious influence or not, but as an adult, i had no interest in UFOs. That changed in 1987 when a pilot named John Lear walked into KLAS TV. Lear’s family was well known in Nevada (and around the world.) John had helped my bosses, Bob Stoldal and Ned Day, in breaking a huge story about the existence of a “stealth” aircraft being developed at a mysterious base called Area 51. Stoldal, my news director, had been collecting anything and everything that was reported about Area 51. It wasn’t much—a folder of maybe 25 pages. Lear’s improbable story about a plane that was invisible to radar turned out to be true (it was a plane called the F-117 Nighthawk) so he had some credibility with us. He walked into the newsroom and dropped a stack of UFO documents onto the desk of managing editor Ned Day. He told Ned that this would be the biggest story of his life, the UFO coverup. Ned wanted no part of it, told Lear that if the UFO thing was true, he–Ned–would already know about it. I was eavesdropping–as always–and as Lear started to leave, I asked if I could see his stack of documents. Over the next few days, I pawed through the material. Some of it was of unknown origin, but most of the pages had been released through FOIA, meaning they were legitimate government documents. At the time, I hosted and produced a 30-minute public affairs interview show called On the Record. The guests were mostly Nevada political figures or the occasional mobster. I asked Lear if he wanted to come on the show to talk about UFOs. He did. It changed my life, not because I believed everything Lear told me, but because of the paper trail–the internal reports and memos written to and for military insiders in which they acknowledged UFOs were real and of unknown origin.

The documents had been written before FOIA existed, so the DOD folks were candid in sharing their opinions in writing–unlike now. Anyway, after the Lear interview aired, my phone started ringing off the hook. People were calling to ask when that UFO interview would air again, or to tell me their UFO story. i wondered, what the hell is going on? I had Lear return for a second interview and the public response was even bigger. t was clear that the subject touched the pulse of the pubic in a way i did not understand or had not recognized. I started reading UFO books and tried to get my head around the subject, went to Lear’s home to see what else he had in his files, then had him on the program a third time, an interview that aired sometime in late 1988. It was a pretty wild program because Lear brought along a guy named Bill Cooper, who spun quite a tale of mystery. In that interview, Lear hinted that he knew a guy who might be taking a job at Area 51. That guy turned out to be Bob Lazar. In May 1989, I was the anchorman on the 5 pm news and our interview guest cancelled at the last minute. I called Lear to ask if his Area 51 contact might be willing to come on the show, even if we had to hide his identity. He called Lazar. We sent our live truck to Lear’s house. The live silhouette interview we did with Lazar created a firestorm and media frenzy, and dramatically changed the lives of everyone who was directly involved, for better or worse.

Area 51 has since become known all over the world.

Danny Silva: What are the biggest stories and issues affecting the subject that aren’t getting talked about or focused on? What UAP incidents have slipped through the cracks that should be revisited?

George Knapp: In just the last few weeks, the public has heard about mystery metals and meta-materials, pieces of odd stuff that reputedly is from crash sites or UFO landing sites. It’s been around for a long time but either wasn’t tested or our technology was not advanced enough to notice the unusual properties. TTSA has issued some clues about what it is doing. I hope that we might soon learn about really unusual, distinctly physical pieces of evidence that will be difficult to dismiss. Months before the New York Times broke its story, I was fortunate to get an early view of the Pentagon videos that are now widely known…Gimbal and Go Fast. People can nitpick all they want, but those videos are damned interesting, and, in my opinion, are legit. I hope that we will learn a lot more about the videos that are already known. I am less hopeful about the other videos that were scheduled for public release. I’m just guessing, but I can imagine there are military recordings of very clear, very dramatic, multi-plane, long-duration encounters with unknown aircraft. Presumably, there could be dozens of highly qualified military witnesses. If such video exists, we have no idea if it will ever be released.

If you have noticed, since the Pentagon reluctantly admitted to the NY Times that AATIP was real, there have been NO releases of UFO files or video, despite thousands of records requests filed by the public. I am NOT optimistic that this will change. Bottom line, there are thousands of UAP incidents that have slipped through the cracks…..that have never been made public at all…and I do not believe the Pentagon is in Disclosure mode. It might look that way, but it really is not the case. Ultimately, this subject is NOT about physical, observable UFOs, in my opinion. That stuff is window dressing. If you want to get to the next level, consider the possibility that UFOs are like shiny baubles on a Christmas tree ….or candles on a birthday cake. They are a performance, and sometimes a distraction. For a deeper dive, read Vallee.

Danny Silva: You are able to boil things down into profound statements. You now have become the story. You are one of the only outlets that the community is able to turn to for direct, credible information. Do you have any plans to write another book, or get more of your personal story released in some way?

George Knapp: Any decent reporter would be aghast at the suggestion that THEY have become the story. I certainly do not agree with that assessment in this case. I have been able to break some pretty good stories related to the subject because of a combination of geography, some tenacity, and a lot of luck. When the 1989 stories about Lazar and Area 51/S-4 exploded on a massive scale, I was fortunate to get a call from a Las Vegas businessman named Bob Bigelow, who is an amazing –and greatly misunderstood person. He told me he was interested in the subject and wanted to know how he could help. I had no idea he would subsequently create an elite scientific team–NIDS–and that I would get to meet and interact with…. truly remarkable people like Colm Kelleher, Hal Puthoff, Kit Green, Edgar Mitchell, Eric Davis, John Alexander, Jacques Vallee, and many others who do not want their names to be made public. It was a mind-blowing and humbling experience. For years, I was allowed to be a fly on the wall for much of what they pursued back then, including their investigation of a Utah property that would later be known as Skinwalker Ranch. NIDS has been described as a UFO research organization. That doesn’t even come close.

Another fortuitous connection is Harry Reid. In 1989, when I was initially overwhelmed by the Bob Lazar/Area 51 allegations, the first person I told–outside of the KLAS newsroom–was Harry Reid. Reid later became the Senate Majority Leader, the most influential Nevadan in history. Over the next quarter century, we continued a discreet, off the record conversation about UFOs. The conversation is ongoing. In the mid 90’s, I told Sen. Reid about NIDS. He had met Bob Bigelow many years before, so he asked about attending a NIDS board meeting. (Reid was not the only Senate member who was present.) It happened. He developed an understanding and appreciation of the larger subject matter. From that seed–and a variety of other lucky circumstances–I am now in an unexpectedly fortunate position, just at the time when all of this UFO news is breaking. Harry Reid was the principal sponsor of the Pentagon UFO study. Bob Bigelow created BAASS, which relied on the talents of many of the NIDS scientists. Some of those NIDS scientists are now part of Tom Delonge’s TTSA. That has spawned many conspiracy scenarios, I know, but the simple fact is, there are not that many credible scientists with DOD clearances who are willing to put their careers on the line by tackling these subjects.

It is understandable why some people want to connect the dots and assume that all of these people are involved in the same ongoing plot, but that is simply not true, in my opinion. I have great respect for Mr. B, and for the work done by NIDS, and I think this subject matter is lucky to have people like Hal Puthoff and Chris Mellon and Lue Elizondo who are STILL willing to risk their personal and professional reputations in the pursuit of this bewildering and frustrating mystery. As for future books, there are several I would like to write but can’t imagine when I would ever have the time. There really should be a new book about Skinwalker Ranch because the story of the BAASS study, what they encountered, and how BAASS interacted with the AATIP folks has not been told. (BTW—shameless plug—there is new info coming in Jeremy Corbell’s film about Skinwalker. It will be unleashed in September.) I also think there could be an important book about the politics of UFOs and the extraordinary risks that were taken by Harry Reid and a few others to both initiate and protect the Pentagon UFO study. I could not write such a book unless given the green light by both Mr. Bigelow and Senator Reid because I made a promise.

Danny Silva: Tom Delonge highlighted Operation Starfish Prime as one of the most important moments in the history of the phenomenon. In regards to weapons being used against UAP, what has your research pointed towards and what is your opinion?

George Knapp: Sorry, but I don’t know anything about it, beyond what has been reported.

Danny Silva: How do you obtain the documents you release?

George Knapp: I can’t tell you. I’ll say this much—the guesses are wrong.

Danny Silva: You were involved in Wikileaks’ Podesta emails. The public was able to hear from you directly, speaking candidly to Tom. How did you first find out that you were involved in the leak? How were you affected by it and did you receive any blow back?

George Knapp: Someone sent me an email to let me know that my name came up in the Wikileaks dump. It was a very weird feeling. It happened again a few weeks ago when the Russians who allegedly

engineered the hack were indicted, by name. I received no blowback whatsoever. I think Tom had some problems in dealing with the people whose names were mentioned. Some of them may have cut off contact. He seems to be moving forward.

Danny Silva: In the Wikileaks emails, Delonge said you were in his secondary advisory group. Recently, you stated that ended when the emails were leaked. What were some of the most important topics discussed during that time?

George Knapp: If I was listed as a secondary advisor, I don’t remember it. I did talk to Tom a lot back then. I would certainly be a secondary person compared to the other folks he engaged during that time. I’m not going to be specific about personal conversations, but will say this: the reasons I wanted to continue a conversation with Tom are 1) because it was fun to bullshit about UFOs with him, 2) because he was smart, 3) because he wanted to learn more about how it all fits together, and 4) because he went way out on a limb for this subject. I have read these scathing, brutal, atomic bombs lobbed in his direction…initially from Blink 182 fans who insisted he reunite with the band, then from UFO people who think he is being used by the Deep State, then from hardcore conspiracy folks who are certain he is helping to initiate a false flag alien invasion…blah blah blah…. I think that what TTSA is doing is pretty remarkable. I do not know where it will lead but am willing to give them some space before I pass final judgement.

The last 9 months have seen a major shift on how the topic is viewed. It is the biggest change in my 30 or so years of chasing this. If this is some kind of stealth disclosure operation, great. If it is disinfo, we will know soon enough. What if it’s real? Lue Elizondo, in my opinion, is a solid dude. It does not seem to me that he is spreading lies. At the MUFON event, he responded to a semi-hostile question about his motives and told the audience that even if he is carrying out an assignment here, sharing UFO info with the public because he was ordered to do it, what is the difference? Ufology wants the government to admit these things are real and that the subject should be studied. It just happened.

Christian Flynn: There are two dominant schools of thought on the incident at Roswell. One promotes the ET hypothesis, the other a Nazi/Russian source. Which do you find more compelling?

George Knapp: Roswell is a mud puddle for me. Seems like that is on purpose. I have no idea if it was ET, but I believe the eyewitnesses. The Nazi/Russian story is interesting but not credible. Who knows? Maybe there is physical evidence that can be analyzed.

Christian Flynn: What was the final piece or pieces of evidence that concretised your belief in the Bob Lazar story?

George Knapp: Mostly, it was the little things that happened during that very strange period….break-ins at Bob’s house…in his car…the people that followed us around…the agency that tapped my phone and then threatened and intimidated people who agreed to be interviewed. When I visited Los Alamos National Lab, and the guard waved Bob into the facility without even looking at his badge, then other folks in different LANL facilities did the same…the fact that the lab denied he had ever worked there, even though he was listed in their phone book…..the fact that Kirk Meyer initially offered to hand over his employment file, then said there was delay, then said they didn’t have the files, then wouldn’t take my calls at all..the fact that he knew the name of the investigator who came to his house to do a background check….and, perhaps most importantly, Bob knew when and where a glowing disc shaped object would be flown on Wednesday nights out in the Nevada desert. It happened three weeks in a row and it’s on video. I lived through it, I saw it, and it was real. When Lazar got into trouble for getting involved with some hookers—a not-entirely-uncharacteristic move on his part–the Parole folks wanted him to do hard time because they could not confirm his background. THAT was the time to come clean if he was making it up, because if he stuck to a lie, it meant prison. He didn’t change his story. I used to care whether people believed Lazar or not. I stopped that many years ago. People can make up their own minds, but I was there.

Keith Mayoh: In a recent interview with Shadows of your mind magazine you stated that you have suspicions that the Ute tribal people have other ideas about what may be going on at Skinwalker Ranch, can you share these with us?

GK: Some of them told us (this year) that they view the ranch property as a portal..a place where spirits of their ancestors move from one life to the next.

Keith Mayoh: You have given the subject a lot of coverage through the years particularly in the I-team news format. Is there a general consensus with your colleagues there that this subject is legitimate or is there some skepticism?

George Knapp: I hope there is some skepticism. That’s our job. In our newsroom, I’ve been there longer than anyone and was reporting UFO stories before any current employee was hired, so it sort of comes with the territory when new people are hired. Seems like a lot of them have heard about it before they get there, or soon thereafter. I have the support of my news director and station management and think my fellow employees generally tolerate my eccentricities. For many years since I dived into the deep end of the pool, our competitors in both TV and print took a lot of pot shots. It’s okay. I have hard bark. I think the events of recent months make it a lot harder to laugh it off.

Jason Goldthorpe: Has the phenomena changed how it portrays itself in anyway over the years that you have been involved with the subject?

George Knapp: It always changes. That is maybe the only consistent thing about it. In the late 80’s when I started down this road, the dominant paradigm was that UFOs are spaceships piloted by aliens from other planets. It didn’t take long to figure out that the explanation really doesn’t cut it. There might be ET’s visiting here in spaceships that are far more advanced than anything we have… and maybe we have recovered pieces of those ships. The pieces, the ships, maybe the bodies of the visitors could be distinctly physical, measurable, real in every sense, but I don’t think that evidence adds up to anything remotely close to actual truth. I do not claim to know what the real deal is, and in my opinion, no one does. No one. This thing takes on many forms. It appears to us in different ways. Sometimes it is physical and many times it is not. The shapes and forms change from century to century, continent to continent. Humans have different name for it, different explanations. UFOs and ETs are seemingly distinct from Bigfoot and poltergeists… and from fairies and goblins and creatures and bulletproof wolves. I think the phenomena has always been here, and it often puts on shows and displays for us, messes with our heads, manipulates humans on both micro and macro scales. Vallee and Puthoff and others say the UFO craft can manipulate space-time, which means they could be from other planets.. or other realities .. or other times… or all of the above. I don’t think the phenomena is benign, and I don’t think anyone really knows what it is or where it is from or what its agenda is.

Jason Goldthorpe: Is it possible that Bob Lazar was purposefully planted as a conduit for the UAP community?

George Knapp: Yes, it is possible. I’ve had that conversation with Bob more than a few times and he agrees it is possible, but if he is a plant or operative, I think it is not a conscious decision on his part. They definitely messed with his head….. and with mine.. and with the other people who were in his orbit. (And it is still going on, by the way.) But, as I have stated a few times, if the idea was to release the UFO story as a distraction from some other program under way at Area 51/S-4, that was a really bad plan, because the end result was to shine an international spotlight on that secret base and whatever it might be doing. Was it an operation to see how the public might react to this kind of news? Maybe, but again, I think the consequences were not what was intended. The public didn’t freak out. The general reaction was—and IS—please tell us more. There is a documentary movie in the works about Lazar. You can judge for yourselves.

Jason Goldthorpe: Is there a possibility that Robert Bigelow is involved in other SAPs as well as his own space program? Do you think he is still studying the phenomena but in a different guise?

George Knapp: No. and No. Mr. Bigelow will always have an interest in the subject, but he separated himself from any active role. People don’t want to believe it, but it is true. He had very good reasons for taking this step. The business reasons are well known. There are personal reasons that are even more compelling. I’ve known him for almost 30 years and he has always been honest with me. He is no longer actively involved.

Jason Goldthorpe: Will we eventually get to see full length videos such as the gimbal and do you agree that if we do it can only be congress that makes such a release?

George Knapp: I hope so but am not optimistic. Unless Congress or the White House order the Pentagon to release other videos, it seems unlikely. I do not agree with the general opinion that some sort of formalized disclosure program is underway. It might look like it, but it is also possible that multiple parties, acting independently, have seized the moment and tossed a few tidbits into the mix. To someone, it might appear to be a large, coordinated effort, but looks can be deceiving. Remember, many of the people who have always wanted to keep the public in the dark about this are still working on the inside.

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